As a professional mom of six kids, Tamsyn has lots of experience with homeschooling, early childhood education, and acceleration. We discussed her experience with Glenn Doman's methods. Listen to learn more about how 2-3-year-old kids can learn to read and do the math.
Her profile: @Tamsyn
Get in touch with Tamsyn:
Links mentioned during the interview:
Listen to the chat on SoundCloud or play below.
Michal: All right, hi Tamsyn. It's great to talk to you today. I was reading your blog and we were discussing just awhile ago that you are really a professional mother, you have six kids which is really tremendous - tremendous effort I can imagine you invest a lot of time and energy to your kids which is admirable, I know that you for example, homeschool your kids, I know that you were a teaching them some of the methods preached by Glenn Doman so maybe you could discuss these because these maybe could start with that with Glenn Doman and it's something that I started doing with my kids and I would like to, you know, see you see your experience and maybe you know get some insights from your end. The thing that I'm particular interested about, how can you actually do it with all the kids that you have, you know like you - you have six kids.
Tamsyn: Well, not perfectly for one thing. One day at a time but one of the things that's really helped is --- because I did the earlier learning, I'm just going to call it early learning, because it's a combination of a lot of different things that I've done. Glenn Doman is one of the people who has definitely inspired me the most. But anyway, if their really learning one of the big advantages is that my older kids are now able to self learn, or self-teach themselves I just say, now this is your reading and I give them a checklist and I check in on them and make sure they have done their school. And I help them when they need it but the older kids don't require as much from me as much as the younger kids do. So that's part of why that's part of how we balance everything out.
Michal: One thing I struggled with when we started with the reading program or the math program with only two kids at home is that they start to distract each other and you know even when we try to get one you know let's say to the other room, they get, it's always so interesting like what's going on in the other room and then as soon as they are together the whole program is just gone, did you have a similar trouble?
Tamsyn: Yeah that does happen for example, I'm, when I'm doing some of the reading programs with my younger kids, the older kids remember it, it's nostalgia for them they love those programs and they want to watch them too and so it's kind of funny one of the things you asked about is no screen time. I actually do a lot of screen time with my kids but I try to choose good programs and I try to work with the time that I work with one kid is the time that another kid has their screen time, so that kind of helps a little bit because if I'm sitting down with my kid and I'm working with them it's harder for them to get distracted and so my younger kids might be watching you know Your Baby Can Read or something like that in one room while I'm helping the other kids with their math in the other rooms. So, but they do get distracted and that's part of why I'm not anti screen time just because the screen thing is my friend, it helps me get everything done.
Michal: You were forced to!
Tamsyn: What I try to avoid is twaddle and by that I mean like you know if you're reading something there's definitely a big difference between say reading Shakespeare and reading Goosebumps you know, there's twaddle and a lot of screen time is just twaddle but there's also some very high quality educational programs that are made specifically for teaching young children and they work, they really work very - very well done and when I was teaching my oldest kid how to read, Glenn Doman recommends a whole word approach for you look at the words and you teach them the words that mean something to them, you know their nose, their face, mommy, baby, those words that have special meaning for very young children and when, I with my oldest I there are some people who kind of discouraged me and said, no you need to teach them to read phonetically and I tried that and that didn't work so well and then I started doing the whole word like Glenn Doman instead, you know if you want to be successful, do what successful people do.
People who have successfully taught their young children to read mostly to use the whole word method but sometimes - sometimes that doesn't work sometimes you need to do Phonics but for us Phonics has been more of us something that we teach in order to teach our kids how to spell not how to read, the whole word method has worked better for that. So anyway I tried to keep my kid engaged and he struggled and it wasn't until I bought Your Baby Can Read and then we got the grown kids the reader and also Monkey See we've actually I mean I've collected these things over the years and their all such, their all so good. We started with Your Baby Can Read though and it wasn't telling that that screen time for him it was exciting, it was new, it was engaging, it wasn't so much that I was forced it was just that when we got that - that was what worked but then a couple months, he was reading and he had a foundation and I've been teaching him, he knew his ABC's since he was a year and a half, my oldest son though he wasn't reading till he was three and it wasn't until he started really doing the whole word method and Your Baby Can Read was actually if you look at Dr. (Inaudible, 05:26), if you look at some of the videos that he did with daughter, he's using those big red flash cards like Glenn Doman so you know that he was inspired by Titzer when he made his program and it works.
Michal: What was the name of the Doctor, Dr. Titzer?
Tamsyn: Titzer, he's the one who made Your Baby Can Read and there was this stupid lawsuit and now it's called, Your Baby Can Learn because heaven forbid that you say babies can read and say they had to change the name but it's still the same wonderful program.
Michal: I think it's actually interesting how are you, how you are teaching kids phonics verses teaching kids how whole words to read at first, it reminds me of the experience in the kindergarten where my kids go because they actually somehow naturally start with - with phonics, you know they start with you know that ABCD letters and then I was reading the Glenn Doman book he actually says and recommends doing something completely opposite which is to read the whole verse. I like how it's possible that you know there are these best practices apparently, you know or the or the mastered by (Inaudible, 06:46) institutes for that human to human potential and the kindergartens and schools all around the world still teach phonetics at first.
Tamsyn: Yes. Well I think older kids if you want to teach a five year old how to read, I think phonetics makes a lot of sense for an older kid because they have they have the memory capacity to remember you know if you're going to say reading the word catch for example they remember the CA sound by the time they get to the CA sound, they are able to, well their kids are better able to say CA-AT and then know it's a puzzle that they need together to say CAT. Younger kids have a hard time doing that, they remember one thing at a time and you know for example if they you know for a baby, Mommy can have the meaning of Mommy come here pick me up or Mommy I want you to come here and they remember you know one word or one element and so for a young child, for the babies have this amazing linguistic ability to look at the word cat and to visualize a cat and know what cat means and it's easier for a baby to do that to look and understand cat then it is for them to understand CA-AT, you know, an older cat can do that. So for older kids I think phonetic approach to reading still make sense for them I mean even for older kids the whole word method works well, it's a comeback they can do a combination, they can have a more sophisticated approach to learning to read whereas a baby can't do that yet, I think.
Michal: So kids who are two, three, four, years old should learn by the whole verse method right?
Tamsyn: Yes, I think even three or four phonetics will help if their starting but for babies and I'm talking about babies, I have friends I mean, I wasn't this successful but I have friends who their babies were reading, like they were reading a simple story books before they were one years old so there really are babies who have learned to read with this method.
Michal: Before they were one year old?
Tamsyn: Before they were one, you look on YouTube, you'll find those videos and I know some of them. I have friends who have done it on, my ten month old isn't reading but they’re out there. But I do have children that were reading before they were two, I have some videos of my kids that were reading, they were reading a first words in the first books before they were two, so I've had that success.
Michal: Wow that's crazy. So then what is actually the benefit for the kids it's sort of obvious that they can you know read faster or sooner but then what's the benefit comparing to kids who are five, six years old? What do you see as the biggest benefit in your kids?
Tamsyn: That they can read. I mean the biggest benefit is the joy of reading, they love to read, they love to learn about things and I mean it's just it's just a leg up really, I mean (Inaudible, 10:00) of learning to read when you're five versus going to read when your ten. Or leaning to read when you’re ten versus when you're twenty, you can read.
Michal: Don't get me wrong, I'm very passionate the reader and I produce your I have to go through the books into them seventeen so I love reading and I would love my kids to read as soon as they can, it's just sometimes also people ask me like you know if they keep will eventually learn anyways so why to push him or her to read of the age of three and in some cases true what would respond because it's like maybe potty training you know like sometimes here the parents pushed the kid too early without any reason like there is no you know ten year old kid who still you know has diapers.
Tamsyn: And I understand that and I know that's, I know that's what you mean and that's a big hang up for a lot of people but for me that's really my biggest motivation is the love of reading. However, you look at some of the people who are very successful today and they were a lot of them are early readers and so you know, there's a guy who, Elon Musk for example, I'm sorry my throat is dry, Elon Musk for example is, Elon Musk was an early reader and now he reads a book or two every week, I can't remember how much he reads but he reads so much and he has such a broad scope, a broad understanding of the world and how to put different pieces together. He's brilliant, he's changing the world and he was an early reader and part of his ability comes from - from that early education.
Michal: Yeah I think that's petering itself, it's a huge benefit like I could only wish to be a speed reader, I'm definitely faster than maybe an average reader but still you know I'm very far from reading eight hundred or nine hundred words per minute. Now we're talking about reading but C--- and his Gentle Revolution series has some other recommendations for example to teach kids math or just do counting, is that also something you did with your kids?
Tamsyn: I did do the math; I had found that his math program was not as universally successful as his reading program. I have a lot of friends who did the reading program and a math program and some kids get it, some kids were able to do this stuff that Glenn Doman talks about with his math program but it didn't really work for us, it didn't work for a lot of my friends but early, an earlier approach to math does work, kids can be taught math from a young age but his whole (Inaudible, 12:43) just by looking at you know, looking at fifty dots and knowing it's fifty dots versus fifty-one dots, most kids can't do that but it helps them understand a general idea and so it's still a good program but we didn't have the same success with the dot program.
Michal: And how many dots did you get to?
Tamsyn: Ten. I mean, I showed them, I showed them numbers bigger than that, 13:12 way I have little math which is, real kids version of Glenn Doman's math program but, we did that, we did that for program but they weren't able, they weren't able to look at ten dots and know it was ten but they were unable to do any more than that.
Michal: We did some equations so my son who was three (Inaudible, 13:32) he was very excited to do equations, you know with plus and minus and and then I told him you know like I had these numbers (Inaudible, 13:40) those are for little babies, so then he was very excited to do bigger numbers, twenty, thirty, you know he was not able to count but he was very, very passionate to actually you know do this twelve dots plus eleven dots equals, so he like it but then I eventually maybe as you say you know we went similar path as majority of the parents at some point just faded out. I'm actually I am not exactly sure what was the reason.
Tamsyn: (Inaudible, 14:15) what really helped my kids was playing with (Inaudible, 14:17), you know things like manipulative like that and playing with an abacus.
Michal: At some point I thought these (Inaudible, 14:26) are just some toy for kid, is this a real thing that we should be using?
Tamsyn: It's worked really well for us and we have, we have done the, what's the name of it, the starbon abacus they use in Japan, it's got four in the bottom and one on top and the one on top represents five and that really helped my kids to think in terms of different, of realizing different ways that you can add up to ten you know, instead of adding, for example, instead of adding eight to a number you can add ten minus two and it helped them to think about things in, in that kind of a term. So yeah they certainly helped, really helped my kids I think it helped take them to the next level. There are, I have friends who use the Sorbonne to teach mental math and they can use their fingers in mid-air just after you use the Sorbonne so much and they can use it to do mental math and we haven't gotten that far but I know people who have, so yeah I think that the abacus is a great way to go.
Michal: Okay, I'll give it a try. Thanks for the tip. What about the other recommendations from Glenn Doman and he copied the cards is that something you were doing?
Tamsyn: Oh yes, yes we did that too and I think it helped. I made, I made hundreds and hundreds of encyclopedic knowledge cards and they're sitting right over here and I use them with my younger kids. The biggest thing for us with that it's just something for them to read, something that they can hold and learn from, it's more of a resource for us than a program as far as how if you used it. We'll be learning about the ocean so I'll pull out my ocean cards and we'll talk about them but...
Michal: Did you also have the fact all the cards or just the also the facts? That must be a lot of work.
Tamsyn: Yeah, I don't do that as much anymore but I had my time and I only had one and two kids, now I have six and it's hard.
Michal: That's crazy, I cannot imagine it.
Tamsyn: Yeah, it's fun. Yeah the encyclopedic knowledge is great.
Michal: Where do you get information from? Do you just open the encyclopedia and pull it from Wiki or do you have some other reserves?
Tamsyn: It depends yeah I got a lot of stuff from Wikipedia or from you know National Geographic depends on what I was learning about. I got a lot of calendars could I like the size, I didn't ever do the eleven inch by eleven inch, I don't know why Glenn Doman recommends that size because it's awkward. We did eight and half by eleven kids in the United States that's the most common size, that's the size of the laminating sheets that I use, so I laminated my cards so that they would last. But there's like calendars that size or a I would trim them down and so when it was architecture I found I actually went to some websites that were about the different places and just grab some facts from that. When it was flowers, I want to see the botanical sites and when it was animals it was you know was Wikipedia, National Geographic whatever I found I would use.
Michal: Wow, that's cool, that's impressive and how did you organize this program to do did you go through it every day or just once a week? What was your schedule?
Tamsyn: I would try to do, I would try to do this a series of like ten to twenty and I would just do it every day for a little bit until they understood that information and sometimes I'll try to bring him out for review. I'm not inconsistent now as I used to be and to be honest now we just go through and say, hey you need to read something, why don't you read through these twenty cards or these thirty cards today, it's reading material because I put the large font on the back of some of them, so it's something for them to read.
Michal: So would you say that you spend more time with your first or second the kid or now with yours fifth or sixth kid? I mean teaching or going through this stuff.
Tamsyn: Yeah I'm, I just do my best when I only had two kids I had you know all my time homeschooling was on those one, two kids or one, two, three kids. Now I'm split between six and so you know like I said the only kids that are more independant now, so they don't need as much of my time that.
Michal: That's what I would expect the other day they can just read books maybe maybe that's what that's what was your objective you know to teach them really quickly to read so that they can just sit somewhere in the corner and read books.
Tamsyn: Yeah, that's what they do.
Michal: Yeah, that's cool. So how you're teaching style changed from the first or second kid fifth, or sixth, what did you do differently?
Tamsyn: I try to do as much of what I what I did before worked and I have this program that works and I have the resources, I just do my best and I try to do more of what I did back then but...
Michal: So what should we do? Like I have now two kids, I don't have any past experience, I didn't go through any you know parenting program or anything, I'm just trying to learn from other parents like you what would you recommend me doing?
Tamsyn: Well you're off to a great start, you read Glenn Doman's books. I would recommend his books and, like we talked about a little bit before this call started, I am so sorry about my voice getting lost here. He has all of these checklists and all of these I mean it can be overwhelming, Glenn Doman I love, I love what he's taught, I love what he's done for the world, I think his checklists are a little bit too much but I think that the biggest takeaway for me at least from Glenn Doman is to have that have that philosophy that just having the attitude of children can learn, don't underestimate what children can learn, always be talking to your child, always be looking for opportunities to teach them and just doing your best with that as is the biggest you can do.
We have you know, we have online communities, the brocades website has a forum and there's a few different online groups that you can you can join and learn what other people are doing and for me it's more of like, okay I want my kid to learn more about art, so what are people using to teach their kids art and I just look for you know, a great art resource. Or their doing math, what is everybody using to do math you know, if I was better at doing foreign languages I would use the same thing that's working for everybody else, Suzuki is a good program to teach young kids music. So kind of depends on what it is you want to teach and then you just look around and see what people are using for that and buy what you can. Kid Outsource you don't have to do everything yourself. Like this that's kind of goes back to this not know it's not most new time, not no screen time but smart screen time there are some really great products out there that will help you and there are some great books out there just decide what it is you want to teach your kid and find the best way to do it, I guess.
Michal: I see, as you mention the smart screen time, how do you explain the kids what is smart and what is not smart?
Tamsyn: Well there's educational programs and there stuff that's not so educational and they do get I mean I don't give them no screen time at all, they're familiar with Pokeman and they watch some of the Disney movies but during school time it needs to be helping them progress and become better at an academic skill so, Who the Math is a website that they play on and I just look at that as fluff, there's not really a lot of educational value to it. So they can do that during their fun time but there's other programs that really do teach the math and are drilling them, their helping them practice their skills, like Big Brains, what's the name of that company, there's a map for game that they played it really helps the drill they have to take they're being timed while they're doing their multiplication and I look at that as very smart screen time because it's drilling them in a way that it's like flash cards but it's fun for them because their seeing, you know they're walking through a 3D space on this computer so it's fun for them, what's good for my family isn't going to be good for other families.
Michal: I see is it is it still a T.V. or is it like a computer with some educational materials?
Tamsyn: A lot of it is on the computer but there's DVD's and stuff that we have too.
Michal: I see because maybe what many people refer to with no screen time is actually no T.V. screen time like especially when you homeschool them you can literally home school without the computer, I assume from what I've heard, what's even previous to I was referring to is no like you know cartoons or YouTube or no T.V. itself. We actually allowed our kids to watch T.V. like one, two years ago but it will be observed that it was very difficult to get them you know, just do something else after like half an hour an hour just they seem to be really addicted to the T.V. screen they were just staring at it at some time it really seemed even scarier, they didn't spend hours per day it was maybe one half hour maximum but then at some points this is enough, like it's getting out of our hands and then we cut it to zero, we even moved the T.V. screen to another room and since then actually kids cannot watch other cartoons or songs they can listen to songs on Spotify or Google Home but they cannot watch the cartoons and what will be the lot of them is just to you know watch some documentary but only if we watch together on the computer.
Tamsyn: That's a really good point there, watching it with your children is a big, is really helpful. But absolutely it's so - so easy, here I am praising these screen times that we use and it's great stuff but they definitely can become addicted and that's a problem, I would have kids sitting in the other room over having something to do with screen time, so my point exactly, your point exactly, that happens, that's a problem.
Michal: At some point of actually even thought that the older boy to use a timer so he you know he got a phone or he set a timer for fifteen minutes and then he even was able to just turn it off after fifty means that he was already you know trained well for days but then the younger daughter came and she didn't get the concept of because she was maybe one year old so she just saw you know the older brother watching the T.V. and she started screaming like no I also want, I also want and then this that fighting, so, so painful so it's like our lives are so much easier and so much better since we just get rid of the T.V.
Tamsyn: Yeah, you know you have to do what works for your family I mean you certainly don't need screen time to teach your kids, you absolutely don't and I know when I'm going it's helped us a lot is to know have activities that help them on unwind, once we turn the screen off, we're like, okay we're going to turn it off because we're going to do XYZ now, we're going to get automatic you know if you were going to play, we are going to go for a walk or going to you know going to do something afterwards or it's time to eat, having an activity after the screen time, gives them a reason to turn it off and then we don't turn it back on until they're done with their school or whatever you know, so having an activity to unwind helps a lot and like you said, with a documentary like you watch the show with your kids, that's one of the things that's really important like Your Baby Can Read, also signing time I forgot about Signing Time when we were talking, Signing Time is a really good program that you can sit down, you do it with your kids, you know you've got your baby on your lap and you're signing with them and you're singing the songs with them. (Inaudible, 27:18) I am so sorry. (Inaudible, 27:35)
Michal: This is the time that screen time is allowed?
Tamsyn: There is no shame in using the screen as a babysitter when you need it.
Michal: I think as soon as you have six kids then everything changes with six kids I feel like, there are no rules anymore.
Tamsyn: Yeah. I just try to do thins in moderation.
Michal: How do you manage it with six kids that's, I still can not imagine it, how do you do it? What are the rules? I mean, like how do you get the kids to you know, to listen to you?
Tamsyn: I'm not perfect but I think they, I bribe them sometimes, I'm just joking I've had to do that sometimes but we just have rules and they have expectations and they know that any get privileges when they're done with their you know are there certain privileges that they can have when they're done with their work that helps a lot, so yeah I bribe them. But I mean I just one day at a time, just doing my best, that's all anybody can be right. I know schoolteachers do it with fifty kids, that is what blows my mind.
Michal: That's crazy, so now do you plan to homeschool the kids you know for the next ten, fifteen years?
Tamsyn: Yes, I do. I'm a home school graduate myself I know that it works for me and my kids are doing well and their happy and they got lots of homeschooling friends, so now when you know if they don't broke what's what's not I mean if it's not broke don't fix it you know.
Michal: What's actually your motivation to homeschool them?
Tamsyn: I love being with my kids, I love watching them learn, I feel like I can give them a better customized education especially, some of the problems, some of the problems that some kids have with early learning is that they aren't very much ahead and once they start public school their bored, you know. I've got a six year old, he would, he's technically a kidengartner as far as his age is concerned and he would be learning you know Act and instead he's reading chapter books at home, you know, I feel like I can give him a better education as an early as an early learner he learned all of the stuff already. So I can tailor his education for where he's at and help him learn what he needs to learn. So, especially for early learners, I think homeschooling is a better route if you can, if you can.
Michal: So would you say that you would like to accelerate your kids?
Tamsyn: Yes, they're on a accelerated path. I mean early learning, if it's a natural consequence of earIy learning really so and even if I even if I wasn't homeschooling I would be after schooling them. There's this concept of after schooling which is when you can't homeschool but you have an early learning they go to public school and then when they come home you're teaching them that's where their real education starts is because you want your kid to continue to progress, you don't want them to, you don't want their education to stagnate and so even if even if they do go to public school I would recommend after schooling to some degree to whatever degree you're able to just to help them keep their keep their mind stimulated. But for me it's a natural continuation of that. I was also homeschooled myself and I loved homeschooling as a kid so, it's what I know, it's what I'm familiar with.
Michal: After school is actually a cool buzzword, you know there's unschool, homeschool, now it's after school, that's very cool. This is actually I think the first time I heard it.
Tamsyn: Yeah it's kind of a new concept and it's kind of I don't know if it's a term that's widely known or if it's the term that we use in our early learning community and I don't know but that's just what people call it if, because there are a lot of people who can't, in Germany for example it's illegal to homeschool, so what do you do, you know? You have limited options so it just kind of depends on your family situation, some people just can't home school because both parents have to work and it's free babysitting you know I mean you doing your best, you do whatever you can in your situation and whatever country you're in.
Michal: And you're also a teach kids music right, (Inaudible, 32:11) you have some programmers who teach music?
Tamsyn: Yeah I have a music web site, it's I used to teach piano lessons and I had choir and stuff and then when my family got bigger I couldn't do it anymore so I went to the online world and I created a lot of resources there.
Michal: Would you see are the benefits of teaching kids, you know play some musical instrument?
Tamsyn: Well it kind of goes back to the you know to the joy of learning itself, I mean there are so many benefits to music. Music uses your right brain, your left brain and that helps put the two together, you have to think about things mathematically but you're also learning the artistic side of things, it teaches kids rhythm, it gives them, it gives them the satisfaction of you know once you've learned a song and you've done it well and you can form it then you have this, you know it builds confidence when you done that. It also helps you build teamwork because if you're playing music together you have to be precise. There I mean, there are so many benefits of learning music but for me the number one reason is just the enjoyment, I love music, it's fun, it makes me happy, there's something that happens to your brain when you are, when you are learning something in a fun way and music can help with that so I mean, where do I start, my piece of music why would you not want to teach music.
Michal: Yeah, that's a good question but when I look at the evolution of technology these days than there was even the technology that is producing the music itself so I'm thinking you know, do I want my kids to you know become musicians, most likely not so what actually is the benefit I can see the benefit on the kids development but then you know if I really think about spending hundreds if not thousands of hours during that period of ten, fifteen years that maybe the time could be spent elsewhere.
Tamsyn: Yeah, you got to do what's right for your family and certainly there's a lot of, there are so many different worthwhile pursuits, you know, there's athletics, gymnastics, you know even if there's only twenty four hours, everybody has twenty four hours, so you got to decide what's best for your family. So, I certainly don't blame anybody who doesn't want to become a musician but I think that's part of being a well rounded you know, sure I agree with you that a lot of the jobs, a lot of the jobs that people have now are going to be replaced by artificial intelligence, that's happened faster and more and more but do we have, what is the purpose of education, that comes to that question, is the purpose of education so that you can get a job, so that you can be an entrepreneur or is the purpose of an education to be educated?
I think that's the thing that really sets humans apart from the other animals in the world is that we have these amazing brains that can do so many things. I think education for education state is a wonderful thing even if even if you are a janitor and there's nothing wrong with being a janitor even if somebody is just janitor their whole life and they're still going to have a richer more full life if they enjoy reading and they do read and they have something to help them unwind. I mean, Thomas Jefferson when he was writing the Declaration of Independence, he would get stumped and he would go and play his violin for a while, he's not famous as a musician but music helped him and helped his mind process the things the he was, that he needed to do. It's a way to help; it takes your mind to a higher level of thinking. So, why be educated at all if all you want to do is have a nine to five job, you know.
Michal: Nice. Very good food for thought indeed. I can't play a musical instrument I started with ukulele just a year ago for a few months, (Inaudible, 36:30) but at some point hopefully.
Tamsyn: And that's okay, I mean everybody can't do everything, you're obviously, I don't know how many languages you speak but I only speak English so I admire you for that you know.
Michal: Oh no, the kids can speak more languages than I can. That's really crazy how quickly they can absorb languages.
Tamsyn: There you go, I think that a lot of the benefits of music or you know, your kids have the benefit of speaking multiple languages and that gives their brain a high level of thinking so I think, I think that a lot of these benefits I'm talking about can be achieved in multiple ways, so do the best with what you know.
Michal: Okay, thanks, thanks a lot for all the all the quick tips. I think I will need to follow up with all the links that you mentioned.
Tamsyn: I can send you a few links too, if you want.
Michal: That would be awesome. So I hope we will stay in touch and I'm very keen to learn more from you and your wonderful experience.
Tamsyn: Thank you so much, I look forward to getting to know you better too.
Michal: Have a nice day.
Tamsyn: You too, bye.
Edited by Michal Juhas